DaveScot Admits that ID = Creationism
The science of biology operates under a general set of propositions, each of which is constantly tested and refined due to incoming data. The most important general proposition is that all organisms alive arose from a single population of organisms. Young Earth and Old Earth Creationists dispute common descent and argue for special creation by the deity. However, Intelligent Design advocates (at least Michael Behe and William Dembski) largely accept common descent. DaveScot over at Uncommmon Descent has a post up where he tries to make the case that Intelligent Design is actually falsifiable.
He starts out by repeating the argument that Judge Jones used in the Dover case, that ID is not science because it is not falsifiable.
In the next part of the post DaveScot quotes Mayr on Darwin's original creationism and how his voyage on the Beagle continually challenged that belief because of data that did not fit with his creationist mindset. Then he does an interesting rhetorical turn:
Huh. It appears like Darwin was testing scientific creationism and found evidence contrary to it.
So what is it. Is ID science or not science? It seems our opponents want to have their cake and eat it too by saying:
“ID is not science because it cannot be falsified or verified. And by the way, ID has been repeatedly tested and shown to be false.”
Now I have to say I agree with the gist of the first part of DaveScot's post. Unless DaveScot is willing to admit that creationism and ID are synonyms though, I don't quite see how his second argument makes sense.
Let's break it down. Creationism is the belief that all species arose by special creation from a deity. Some creationists believe each species was created individually, while some believe the process was only by kinds with subsequent dynamic evolution from the basic kinds. Yet creationism is most definitely testable and indeed has been tested and has been falsified.
I hope DaveScot can understand that.
However, if someone is like Behe, and accepts common descent, but just believes that somewhere in the mix God did some stuff to help things along now and then (helping make the eye, working on some blood clotting, tweaking the bacterial flagellum a bit), then that really isn't testable. There's no way to prove that organisms weren't tweaked by God.
There are multiple ways to show beyond any reasonable doubt that organisms are commonly descended. So I wonder if DaveScot understands the irony of his blog's title or not.
Now the odd thing there is what DaveScot doesn't do. You'd think that if ID truly were testable, DaveScot would hang out the test that could be done to disprove it, or the findings that would invalidate it. Evolutionary biologists repeatedly have given examples of things that would invalidate the theory of evolution -- rabbits in the Cambrian being the classic example.
So the argument is only rational if you admit that ID is creationism, something that the Discovery Institute spent many years trying to argue it wasn't. Thanks for admitting something that all rational people knew all along, DaveScot. Yet even there, DaveScot can't quite put his theory on the line by giving a simple proof of his point -- what exactly is the test that could be done that would falsify ID?
9/28 -- edited to reflect the proper name of the judge in the Dover case.

11 comments:
Dembski does not accept common descent, unless something's changed recently. He wrote "For the record: I personally don’t believe in common descent though I think there are lines of evidence that suggest considerable evolutionary change."
As you stated, Behe does accept common descent.
Well thanks for that Jeffrey. So now we know that Dembski is a creationist as well as DaveScot. That's the first unequivocal statement I've seen from Dembski on this issue.
However the only alternative to common descent is creationism (which appears at this point to be thoroughly falsified).
Evan,
One minor thing, in your second paragraph you refer to "Judge Kitzmiller" it was actually Judge Jones. Kitzmiller was one of the plaintiffs.
Although there may be others Behe is the only ID advocate that I know of that claims to believe in common descent.
Great post Evan!
You know, Jerry Coyne has said that ID really has a strong form (which is presented to its Christian followeres) and a weak form (which is argued for in court). The first is falsifiable, the second is not because it simply states that some intelligence did something somewhere at some point in time in some way. And the IDer may have even attempted to do this something so as to make it look as though it had evolved.
Anthony, thanks. Big mistake on my part, it's fixed now.
AiGBusted -- right, and yet DaveScot tries to conflate the two. Hopefully anyone who is fighting attempts to put ID into a curriculum in the future will quote DaveScot here to bolster the ID = Creationism position.
Here is a link to a great video on teaching Creationism in schools.
http://www.yoism.org/?q=node/237
Creationism is Creationism, and it makes no difference whether you think the Creation happened at a specific recent time or if it continuously happens to this day, if you assert without clear evidence that a supernatural force was involved in the origin and evolution of the universe and of life, you are a Creationist. However, being a Creationist is not the same as being a evolution denialist, just as being a Christian does not make you a Baptist Fundamentalist.
Now, if the ID promoters will simply stop playing mind games to appease their more extreme Creationist allies, we can end this bogus "controversy" and just proceed with the teaching of pure science! Young Earth Creationism is only acceptable if you think of God as a pathological liar who made the universe and Earth to look like they are millions of years old. Old Earth Creationism actually accepts astronomical and geological evolution, but denies biological evolution, which is inconsistent. Intelligent Design is only acceptable if you admit, as DaveScot did, that it cannot be falsified because you can move the goalposts to assume that God did an act of creation to explain any mystery in biological origins. None of these positions are scientifically productive at all.
I'm with Dale on this. To me, young earth creationism, old earth creationism, and ID are all just three aspects to the same thing. (Christians seem to enjoy doing that. The trinity comes to mind...) When you look at the politics, the ultimate goal shows through: they're trying to bring Christianity into the schools, including the science classes.
In my book, I just flat out say that they're the same thing without going into detail. (I figured I'd take flack for that, but haven't heard anything so far.) David Mills, however, does make the point to distinguish the two in his book (Atheist Universe) in order to show that ID violates the Bible in apparently saying Genesis didn't happen literally, and as such Christians who believe in ID are hypocrites. I think that's an interesting point. But still, to me they're just multiple sides to the same unscientific idea.
As for DaveScot's posting, what's interesting is that I'm not a reader of the Uncommon Descent blog, and I wasn't sure what it was. In my initial reading of DaveScot's post, I wasn't sure what his stand was, because the writing isn't totally clear. But now knowing he claims to be an IDer but non-Creationist, then I easily see Evan's point that DaveScot is equating the two.
Falsifiability isn't sufficient that something for something to count as science. I can falsify historical claims too but that doesn't make history a science.
It is necessary, not sufficient. DaveScott needs to get his elementary logic straight.
Falsifiability isn't sufficient that something for something to count as science. I can falsify historical claims too but that doesn't make history a science.
It is necessary, not sufficient. DaveScott needs to get his elementary logic straight.
That is correct, but it must also be remembered that science itself has a historical element to it that results from applying known physical and chemical laws to deep time. There are wackaloons out there that deny this and say evolution, the Big Bang theory, or continental drift are not scientific because they are historical theories. But without the application of the scientific laws to test those theories, they couldn't be falsified.
Good point Dale. I meant history as in what historians do, not historical sciences like evolutionary biology (on the other hand, I do believe such sciences are not as firm as sciences like physiology, which study how observabe things operate in the here-and-now).
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